Tom Scott Law Indy

Bankruptcy Attorneys in Indianapolis Since 1980

Chapter 13

Divorce and Child Support Can Impact a Bankruptcy

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Divorce is one of the major causes of bankruptcy. If your divorce agreement includes child support payments, your ex-spouse can play a significant role in determining whether or not your bankruptcy will be discharged.

We recently discussed several aspects of bankruptcy with Christopher Holmes and Jess M. Smith, III, partners at Tom Scott & Associates, P.C. The discussion covered several topics, including the means test, the differences between Chapter 7 and Chapter 13, how divorce and child support can affect bankruptcy, and the discharge process. Below is Part 3 of 4 of the transcript of that conversation.

Q: Have you been dealing with any unusual circumstances recently?

Jess Smith, III: I have a gentleman who completed his Chapter 13 plan; he made all of his payments and was getting ready to file his motion for discharge. However, his ex-wife objected to it because he fell behind—not on his post-petition child support—on his share of the uninsured medical expenses for the child. She had taken him back to the divorce court and got a judgment against him for not paying his share of those medical expenses, which is classified as a domestic support obligation. She objected to his discharge under Chapter 13.

Chris Holmes: Before anyone can get a discharge under Chapter 13, they have to certify they have paid every single penny of child support that came due after the filing of the case up until the day of discharge. In this poor guy’s case, he had paid every single penny of child support, but then because that other expense—which is in the nature of child support—had not been paid, it became an issue. Child support is not just the weekly amount that’s paid, sometimes people are ordered to pay a percentage of medical and dental and optical expenses. Evidently, he didn’t pay his fair share, so she sued him and got a judgment against him.

JS: She filed a contempt on him in the divorce court. She also filed an objective to his bankruptcy discharge.

Q: If he was denied a discharge, would that mean his personal liability on all of those other debts would still be there?

JS: The bankruptcy judge waited to see if he was going to make any headway on it. No resolution was made, so the judge said to the debtor, “Either I’m dismissing this case or you might be able to convert to a Chapter 7 and there might be ramifications of that or not.” So, we converted to a Chapter 7 and we got his discharge. So, all of his other debts were discharged, but he did not get a Chapter 13 discharge, In this case, it was really of no consequence, because he was not paying taxes in the plan.

I’ve got another case in which the debtor had a Chapter 13, with taxes being paid in the plan. He also owed his ex-wife child support and he estimated that he owed her $5000 of child support. So the ex-wife got notice of the bankruptcy and was given a claims form. She never filed a claim. So, eventually the trustee was sitting on this money and he paid the taxes first. Then he said to the debtor, “We’ve got this $5000; you better file a claim for your ex-wife, otherwise I’m going to have to disperse it to Visa and MasterCard, and you won’t receive any child support credit for it.

CH: The ex-wife hadn’t file a claim and if you don’t file a claim you can’t get paid through a Chapter 13 plan.

JS: About a year and a half ago, I filed a claim for the ex-wife and I put the state court divorce number—the Indiana Support Enforcement and Tracking Number. Instead of sending the money directly to the mother, the debtor scheduled a flat $5000 payment and we had it go through the state address where they basically put that money onto a Visa debit card. The trustee pays it through the Indiana Child Support Collection Unit. In the meantime, he’s having his regular support deducted out of his wages. We’re getting close to the plan length, so we tell the debtor that he needs to come in to sign off that he is current. He says, “My kids are 19 and they’re still yanking it out of my check.” I ask, “Are you current or are you not?” So he hired me to find out why they are still taking out child support from his wages. I went to the state court, pulled 17 years worth of records, and did a hand audit. There were periods within those years during which he would miss eight months at a time, and despite the fact that he continued to pay support beyond the child’s 19th birthday, his estimate of what he owed his ex-wife was way low.  I created a spreadsheet that accounted for every nickel of child support he ever paid and then told him that he still owes about $5900, even after the recent $5000 payment. I tell him that I can’t file the certification for his Chapter 13 discharge, because it would be a false representation of his bankruptcy. For him to get a Chapter 13 discharge, he has to certify to the bankruptcy court that he has paid all post-filing and all pre-filing child support, unless there was an order in the state court to the contrary stating he doesn’t have to do it.

CH: He has to swear, under the penalties for perjury, that he has paid every single penny of child support from the date of filing to the date of discharge.

JS: The bottom line is I tell him we can’t do this. Meanwhile, the child is 19, so we file a motion to emancipate the child and determine an arrears. There’s a hearing set in June. Basically, I’ve talked to the ex-wife and she said, “I don’t care about the medical expenses, but I want every support payment that’s due. I’m not going to hold up his discharge, but I want my money.” What had happened is when he swore to me that he had paid everything, I filed a motion to terminate his withholding order. His employer received a copy of it, but with no order from the state court they just quit paying the ex-wife. She hasn’t received any money in about four months. But she says, “I want every nickel that is due to me, but I’m not going to hold up his discharge.” I then talked to the bankruptcy court and asked if they had ever had a case like this. They said, "No," and that we should make up a waiver form, have the mother sign it. and the judge will set up a hearing and grant the discharge, because the mother is not objecting to the discharge going through despite the fact that he has not technically complied with the bankruptcy code. If the mother did contest it, just like the other case, the judge would say, "I can’t grant the discharge."

Q: What would have happened if the mother contested the case and forced the judge to actually say, "I can’t grant the discharge."

JS: This particular debtor has only been in the bankruptcy about three years. I would probably put him back into the bankruptcy to stretch the plan out and pay it. But, I don’t want to do that because the trustee charges a fee on the money she collects to disburse to the state, so I’ve got the waiver worked out.

CH: That would be a remedy, if he had the luxury of stretching it out.

JS: If he had more time. We probably have about 16 months left now to delay, but I’m not going to go there.

CH: If it was a five-year plan, we couldn’t extend it. If she objected, the only other option would be to convert to a Chapter 7.

JS: If we converted to a Chapter 7, he would have to deal with some potential past issues in his particular case where he wouldn’t get the same benefits.

CH: Otherwise, he would be out of a bankruptcy without a discharge. So, if he only paid ten cents on the dollar on all of his debt, he would still owe his creditors the remaining 90%, plus interest and whatever late charges are nondischargeable.

JS: They could have closed the case without a discharge. It’s one of those gray areas. There’s no black and white in the code to deal with that issue. We have to kind of make it up as we go and see if the judge will bite on it.

CH: We’ve been doing this a long time. I’ve been doing nothing but bankruptcies since October 1997, when I joined Tom Scott, and Jess started focusing on bankruptcy shortly thereafter. There are attorneys out there who dabble in bankruptcy and there are lots of young lawyers right out of school. I can’t believe that without the experience that there is any way they render as effective legal representation to their clients as we do, because we’ve been there, we’ve done that, and we’ve seen so many strange situations.

In addition, we have the background to relate bankruptcies to other law. There are people who get out of law school now and just go straight into bankruptcy, not knowing how it impacts family law, personal injury, taxation, and other issues. Jess and I are both diversified lawyers. We started out as general practitioners, where we did criminal, divorce, probate, and everything that came through the door—we figured out how to do it.

Part 1 of Conversation: Means Test Helps Determine Filing For Chapter 7 or Chapter 13 Bankruptcy

Part 2 of Conversation: Differences Between Chapter 7 Bankruptcy and Chapter 13 Bankruptcy

Part 4 of Conversation: Being Discharged From Bankruptcy

Being Discharged From Bankruptcy

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When a Chapter 13 bankruptcy plan has been completed by a debtor, a few steps remain before the bankruptcy is officially discharged. The discharge process includes the filing of the Notice of Plan Completion by the trustee, along with the filing of two forms by the debtor: the Debtor’s Certification of Eligibility for Chapter 12/13 Discharge and the Motion for Entry of Chapter 12/13 Discharge. If the debtor has a mortgage, additional forms are required.

We recently discussed several aspects of bankruptcy with Christopher Holmes and Jess M. Smith, III, partners at Tom Scott & Associates, P.C. The discussion covered several topics, including the means test, the differences between Chapter 7 and Chapter 13, how divorce and child support can affect bankruptcy, and the discharge process. Below is Part 4 of 4 of the transcript of that conversation.

Q: If you’ve filed Chapter 13 and you’ve made all of your payments on-time to the trustee over the course of the three- or five-year plan, what is the next step for the debtor to ensure that everything is legal and the bankruptcy is discharged?

Jess Smith, III: The trustee files a Notice of Plan Completion. Copies of this notice are e-mailed to anyone who receives electronic notification in the case. The debtor then signs a motion for discharge (Motion for Entry of Chapter 12/13 Discharge) and a document stating they’re eligible (Debtor’s Certification of Eligibility for Chapter 12/13 Discharge).

Q: Does the debtor need to go back to their lawyer?

Chris Holmes: Yes. Our paralegal, Margaret, takes care of all of that. She prepares these documents; the debtor comes in and signs them; and we file it. Generally, the debtor receives an order granting discharge.

JS: Typically, the trustee has received all of the money from the debtor and dispersed it out to the creditors. There is one other thing that they sometimes do. If there is real estate involved and the trustee had made any distribution to the creditors whatsoever, the trustee files what’s called the Notice of Final Cure Payment, to which the mortgage companies have a duty to respond, to state they think that the debtor is current on the mortgage or not current on the mortgage. It’s kind of a final chance for the mortgage company to speak up before a Chapter 13 discharge.

CH: We used to have these problems where we’d have people in Chapter 13s and we thought they’d paid all of their mortgage payments and were caught up on what they were behind. They’d get their discharge and then they’d get a notice from the mortgage company stating, for example, they were still two months behind, which would cause all sorts of problems. So the courts came up with this procedure to have the trustees state their belief that the mortgage is current, which shifts the burden to the creditor to come into bankruptcy court and prove otherwise.

JS: Or, the mortgage company would tack on fees, hide the ball, and not tell anybody until discharge. All of sudden they would say, “Well, we charged you $3000 to monitor your bankruptcy. You owe us next week or we’re going to foreclose.”

Q: That’s in the past?

JS: That’s in the past.

Q: So if a debtor has completed the 60-month plan; they’ve paid the trustee on-time each month; they’ve paid their mortgage on-time each month; the trustee will send a notice to the mortgage company?

JS: Yes. And to the debtor.

Q: The debtor takes that notice and brings it back to their lawyer?

CH: We get a copy, so we know at the same time.

Q: So when you receive a copy of the notice sent to the debtor that states they’re eligible for discharge, a paralegal in a bankruptcy law office will do what with that notice?

JS: There are two different documents. The first is the Notice of Plan Completion, which deals with the payments and disbursements to creditors. The second document is the Notice of Final Cure Payment, which strictly relates to the mortgage lenders. When the trustee sends the Notice of Plan Completion, the debtor has to move for discharge. When the trustee sends the Notice of Final Cure Payment, there’s a burden on a mortgage company to file a response, usually within 30 days, stating whether the mortgage is current or not. If a mortgage company doesn’t file one, usually the trustee sets a hearing.

CH: First of all, the debtor gets a discharge, so the rest of the debt that wasn’t paid is wiped out—rendered null and void. And if there’s not a controversy about whether the mortgage is current, there’s an order stating it’s current. That gives the debtor a fresh start, so that the next month they don’t have to worry about the mortgage creditor saying, "Wait a minute. You still owe us $500." When the order is issued, the mortgage company can’t foreclose.

Q: So, if there’s no mortgage, the law office receives a copy of the Notice of Plan Completion. At that point, the law office automatically…

CH: …generates a document to be signed by the debtor that we then file to get them the discharge.

Q: And if there is a mortgage, do you wait 30 days to see if you’ve received back anything from the mortgage company?

JS: Let me give you an example. Normally the mortgage company will say, “We agree the trustee has paid everything that was owed pre-petition,” and either, “We agree they are current,” as of the date they file the response or they say, “No, we disagree and they owe four months of payments,” as an example.

Q: And if the mortgage company ignores the Notice of Final Cure Payment?

JS: If they ignore it, the trustee sets a hearing.

Q: Normally, if the mortgage is current, will the mortgage company respond back as soon as they receive the notice?

JS: Right, But let’s say they either blow it off or they say the debtor is delinquent. If they blow it off, the trustee is going to set a hearing to get an order from the judge.

Q: Does the debtor have to go to the hearing or just the mortgage company?

JS: Typically, you want the debtor there. Here’s an example: In this particular case, the trustee said, “We’ve paid everything we should pay and we think the debtor is current.” But the mortgage company said, “Well, we agree that you paid what was owed prior to filing, but we did an escrow analysis eight months ago, and didn’t tell anybody, and the debtor’s escrow is now short by $700.” So the trustee said there needs to be a hearing on the matter, because it’s not his fault. The trustee was caught in a position of wondering if he needed to go extract money from Visa and MasterCard to pay it on the mortgage, because the mortgage company messed up. We had a couple of hearings on this matter and the mortgage company backed off of its position, stating we’re not going to get the money through the plan. But the judge said that if that mortgage company truly advanced the money, it’s entitled to reimbursement, so you need to work out an agreement. So, we worked out an agreement that states the debtor has six months after the bankruptcy is done to cure the escrow shortage by paying one-sixth of the delinquent amount directly to the mortgage company. As long as the debtor does that, the mortgage company can’t foreclose.

CH: The mortgage creditor has an affirmative duty to tell the trustee how much the regular monthly mortgage payment is to be paid through the plan, so the trustee knows how much to send. Evidently in this case, the mortgage company neglected to say that it needed to increase the payment to make up for that shortfall. The mortgage payment has principal and interest, plus it escrows every month for one-twelfth of the annual taxes and insurance premium.

JS: This was a mess where, after the trustee had made the payments every month for five years, when the case was getting ready to close, the mortgage company sent a letter to the debtor stating, “You need to start making these payments and here is the account number, per the proof of claim.” So the debtor started sending the payments, but they weren’t getting cashed. We finally got to the bottom of it: the account number had changed but the mortgage company did not tell that to anyone. There was a lot of incompetence by this mortgage company.

Part 1 of Conversation: Means Test Helps Determine Filing For Chapter 7 or Chapter 13 Bankruptcy

Part 2 of Conversation: Differences Between Chapter 7 Bankruptcy and Chapter 13 Bankruptcy

Part 3 of Conversation: Divorce and Child Support Can Impact a Bankruptcy

Accruing Post-Petition Interest on Unpaid Federal Taxes (Interview Part 3 of 3)

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Penalties for unpaid federal taxes are still dischargeable when filing for bankruptcy, but they will accrue post-petition interest that is owed to the IRS. Debt limit amounts have changed for Chapter 13 cases, as of April 1, 2016.

Editor: We recently discussed the changes in the bankruptcy laws with Christopher Holmes, Jess M. Smith, III, partners at Tom Scott & Associates, P.C., along with associate attorney Andrew DeYoung. Below is Part 3 of 3 of the transcript of the conversation.

Q. What else is new in bankruptcy law?

Chris Holmes: Some of our clients have received letters from the IRS. We thought certain taxes or certain penalties or certain interest on taxes were going to go away, upon discharge. But now the IRS is coming after people—after discharge—for non-dischargeable penalties and interest on taxes that were fully paid through the Chapter 13 plan. In the good old days we would tell people that once you’re done with that Chapter 13 plan, you’re done with the IRS; you’re done with the Indiana Department of Revenue; you have no more tax worries. Now we’re finding out that is not always true, depending upon when the tax returns were filed. So, in affect, the IRS is punishing people for not filing their tax returns in a timely fashion. So, if tax returns are not timely filed and they’re filed within two years of the filing of a bankruptcy case, those taxes are not dischargeable nor are the penalties and interest thereon. Previously, you would throw those taxes in the plan, pay them in full, and then the penalties and interest would be discharged.

Jess Smith, III: Now they’re boarding up the penalties, but accruing post-petition interest.

CH: So the penalties are still dischargeable; it’s just the interest that’s still accumulating, and will be there at the end of the road. So, now we get these calls from our clients saying, "Hey, what’s going on? I got this letter from the IRS," and we have to give them the sad news that when the law changed back in 2005, there was a provision in there that allows the IRS to collect these interest charges on debts that were otherwise fully-paid through the plan.

Andrew DeYoung: Starting April 1 of this year, and this only relates to Chapter 13 cases, the debt limits are going up. That means the amount of unsecured debt that you have is increasing about $10,000. Debtor’s going into bankruptcy are able to have another $10,000 owed out and still will qualify for a Chapter 13 case. It’s now $394,725, up from $383,175. For secured debt, the amount is now $1,184,200, up from $1,149,525. It changes every three years and it can be found in the Federal register if you use the code words "109(e)" or "Chapter 13 debt limit." 

CH: It’s pretty rare that someone would have debts of that amount.

AD: One case that we worked on the debtor had purchased some vacant real estate in Florida, when the market was doing very well. He purchased the property for roughly $300,000 to $350,000 per parcel. The value then went down to under $50,000 per parcel. We ran up against the debt limits on that issue. We were luckily able to negotiate with the creditor to work a solution in the Chapter 13, but if the creditor had not agreed to work with us we would not have been eligible for a discharge in Chapter 13 because the secured debt of the debtor was too high. In a case I’m working on now the problem is where the debtor has student loans totaling $370,000. The rest of their unsecured debt is not very high, but with the debt limits only around $390,000, absent an agreement with the Department of Education, we’re not eligible for a Chapter 13.

CH: The consequence would be that they have no choice but to resort to a Chapter 11, which is primarily designed for corporations and individuals with really, really complicated situations — and those cost a whole lot more for attorneys fees and court costs.

AD: In talking to the U.S. trustee, I was advised two days ago that you would be a fool to take a Chapter 11 for under $10,000 (as the attorney fee), which in comparison to our Chapter 13 fee would be a total fee over 60 months of $4000. $10,000 up front in one sum or $4000 over 60 months is quite a big difference.

CH: It’s rare, but once in a while you get a debtor who has that kind of debt, and then you have to really go into how much the really totals out to be. You think it might be a certain amount, but the hope is that it falls under those thresholds so you can just barely make it into a Chapter 13.

Part 1 of Interview: What’s New in Bankruptcy Law in Indiana

Part 2 of Interview: Property You Can Protect When You File for Bankruptcy

Bankruptcy Strategy for Client with Chronic Medical Condition and No Health Insurance

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Medical Bills Past Due

A remedy is available for a man without medical insurance who has a serious medical condition that prevents him working. Many people with medical conditions seek debt relief through a Chapter 13 bankruptcy plan, with the option of converting that to a Chapter 7 bankruptcy later, if medical bills become overwhelming while the plan is in effect.

We recently discussed how medical issues and bills impact bankruptcy filings with Christopher Holmes and Jess M. Smith, III, partners at Tom Scott & Associates, P.C. Below is a transcript of that portion of the conversation.

Chris Holmes: I have a current client who lives in the near-north side of Indianapolis. He is in his 40s and has children. He recently had undergone some medical treatment for a chronic, persistent problem. Unfortunately, he didn’t have any insurance. He couldn’t work and he didn’t have any accrued sick time, so he couldn’t earn any money. As a result, he couldn’t pay his monthly bills and couldn’t make payment on his medical bills. All of his creditors are now coming after him. Some people in this type of situation might file a Chapter 7 bankruptcy and wipe the slate clean. The medical problem has not yet been resolved and he is going to need additional medical treatment for which he does not have medical insurance.

What we do sometimes in cases like this is to put someone into a Chapter 13 plan, which would last, at a minimum, three years. If, during that three year period after filing the Chapter 13 case, he incurs an extraordinary amount of uninsured or unreimbursed medical bills he can’t handle, we have the luxury of switching or converting the Chapter 13 case to a Chapter 7 case. Whereas you can only list the debts that are incurred as of the time of the filing for bankruptcy, you can move that line down the road to the point of conversion. So, if between the filing of the Chapter 13 and the conversion of the case he incurs all of those unreimbursed medical bills, we can add them to the list. If those medical bills are dischargeable, we’ll discharge them in that converted Chapter 7. It’s a way to insure against uninsured medical bills during that three year time-frame.

Jess Smith: That is a legitimate reason for people to file Chapter 13. Don’t take garnishment now, with the right to convert later.

CH: So, for a minimum payment of $125 a month, which is probably cheaper than any insurance premium, people in this position insure against those uninsured medical bills during that three year timeframe. Now, if they don’t incur any additional medical bills, they can complete their plan and get their discharge, but if those medical bills are more than they can handle, that’s a reason to switch it over to a Chapter 7.

This particular client can’t go back to work for a couple of more months, so we are going to wait to file the case until that time. Chapter 13 used to be referred to as a wage earner plan and was designed for people who had regular steady income above and beyond their monthly living expenses. Without that regular steady income, he can’t propose a feasible plan. So, he is going to be released by his doctor and go back to work and that is when we are going to file. He’s still worried that he is still going to have this persistent problem that would require additional medical treatment and incur those unreimbursed medical bills.

If a medical condition and medical bills are causing severe financial hardship, contact us to discuss possible options that will allow you to get back on your feet and out of debt.

Foreclosure, Second Mortgage, and Bankruptcy

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Avoid Foreclosure and Keep Your HouseWhen foreclosure of a house is a threat, many homeowners seek debt relief through bankruptcy. A fairly common theme in this type of situation is the presence of a second mortgage. Another common aspect in this scenario is that homeowners are unaware of the second mortgage on their home. How does this happen?
We recently discussed foreclosure and second mortgages with Christopher Holmes and Jess M. Smith, III, partners at Tom Scott & Associates, P.C. Below is a transcript of that conversation.
Jess Smith: We’ve recently had several clients come to us with a foreclosure problem. We’ve been ready to file their bankruptcy, thinking they only have one mortgage on the property that is under water, and it turns out they actually have a second mortgage, because they’ve been in trouble before and entered loss mitigation. They basically granted a second mortgage that is now held by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) with no minimum payment and no interest. But, the loan is due either in 30 years or upon sale of the house or upon refinancing of the existing note. The majority of people who come to us to get help with their first mortgage have no recollection of this second mortgage.
Q: These are secured loans?
Chris Holmes: Yes, these are secured loans. They were behind right before closure so they took the arrearage and made it into a note and second mortgage with no payment due.
JS: So they don’t get a monthly bill. They didn’t do a loan modification on the original mortgage, they default on it again, and so they’re sitting here in a foreclosure and they bring in the foreclosure documents and we have to tell them they have a second mortgage. If we can prove they are still under water with the first mortgage, we can get rid of that HUD mortgage in Chapter 13.
Q: Can you expand on the different types of second mortgages you can acquire other than from a bank?
JS: What was probably more common 10 to 15 years ago was when people would get what was called an 80-20 mortgage. If they didn’t put enough money down to qualify for a certain loan, so they would get a loan for 80% of the total amount financed and then get a subsequent loan for 20% of the amount financed, in order to get the lower rate on the first mortgage. So they would have two mortgages basically granted at the same time when they purchased the house.
CH: Instead of borrowing 100% from the first lender, the lender would let them borrow 80% as a first mortgage. They would then borrow the other 20% and turn that into a second mortgage. The loans were then recorded within minutes or seconds of each other. We saw that quite a bit 10 to 15 years ago. Now, we hardly see that at all.
Q: Are there any other agencies besides HUD that provided those types of second mortgages?
JS: It’s usually just the Department of Housing and Urban Development. I think the way these mortgages are created is when the homeowner gets in trouble the first time, HUD will cut a check to the original lender to bring the debt as current; they’ll restructure the interest rate and the payment terms, but HUD just doesn’t give the default amount to the lender. They hold that as a second mortgage. Most people either just forget about it or they have so many pieces of paper shoved in their face – when they know this is how much I have to pay on the first mortgage – they have no recollection that there is a second mortgage out there. So they come see us very late in the foreclosure process.
Q: You mentioned that they may not even be making payments on the HUD loan. What are the various types of terms that could be applied to that second loan?
JS: Typically, the terms are no interest, a maximum maturity of 30 years, or the loan becomes due upon sale of the real estate or the refinancing of the first mortgage.
Q: If it is a no interest loan, does the borrower need to be making monthly payments on that amount?
JS: They are not required to, but the odd thing is that they can get rid of it in Chapter 13 bankruptcy. if when they file the bankruptcy they owe more on the first mortgage than what the house is worth.
Q: What exactly does “get rid of” mean in regards to the second mortgage?
JS: Basically, a lien strip.
CH: It’s called a motion to avoid a wholly unsecured mortgage. So as long as we can persuade the judge that the value of the home is exceeded by the payoff on the first mortgage, there’s no equity to which the second mortgage can effectively attach, because they are wholly unsecured, the law says you can get rid of, or as we say, strip, or avoid that – turn them from a secured creditor into an unsecured creditor, so down the road when the house is to be sold, there is no need to pay that second mortgage. It’s wiped out just like a credit card debt is wiped out.
Q: is that for both Chapter 7 and Chapter 13?
JS: That’s only available in Chapter 13.
CH: That’s one of the primary reasons we recommend Chapter 13 for some people in that circumstance. In a Chapter 7, you’re stuck with that second mortgage. Only in Chapter 13 do we have the clout to get rid of it.
JS: I met with a gentleman earlier today whose house on the east side of Indianapolis is up for Sherriff’s sale in a couple of weeks. He can’t find his foreclosure complaint. All he brought in was the notice of the sale. I went to the state court chronological case summary, and the Department of Housing and Urban Development is named as a defendant in the foreclosure. So, before we file the case, I have to see if there is a second mortgage, and if there is, I need to pay real close attention to what his house is worth to see if there is the possibility of eliminating this debt he didn’t even know he had.
Q: In a Chapter 7, they’re going to lose the house?
CH: It’s either make arrangements to pay all mortgages to keep the home or surrender the home to get rid of the debt.
Q: In a Chapter 13, is that second mortgage, which you’re stripping from being secured, rolled over into the pool of creditors so that you’ll still eventually pay pennies on the dollar for that amount?
JS: It’s converted into unsecured debt – lumped together with credit cards and medical bills, etc. – that you might eventually pay anywhere from 1-cent to 100-cents on the dollar. It just depends on what your income ability is to pay back back the debt. But it is converted to an unsecured debt.
Q: Is there a lesson a reader might learn from this case? Why is he filing for bankruptcy?
JS: The gentleman is about 50 years old and currently employed as a machine operator. He earns about $45,00 a year. His wife, who is not filing for bankruptcy, is employed by the government. She earns about $50,000 annually. The primary reason for his financial problem is that he and his wife don’t communicate about income and expenses. The house and the mortgage are both in his name. Her money is her money and his money has to pay for the house. They’ve only had the house for three years, so maybe they just bought too much house. I suspect it is a pattern of lack of communication that has put them in this spot, because he doesn’t seem to know much about her bills and expenses, but she makes over half of the household income.
Q: Did this gentleman come in to see you at you at your East Indy office?
JS: Actually, he came into the North Indy office, because it’s open on Saturday.
If your mortgage lender is threatening foreclosure on your house, contact us to discuss possible options that will allow you to stay in your home while you work to get out of debt.
Additional Resource from HUD: Avoiding Foreclosure

Auto Loans and Bankruptcy: How to Avoid Repossession of Your Vehicle

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We Can Help You Keep Your Car

Are you behind in your monthly car or truck payments to the point where you are unable to satisfy your bank or financial institution and they’ve placed the loan in default? If you answered “Yes,” there may be a way out of your tough situation.

If you’re having financial troubles and are desperate to avoid repossession of your car or truck, filing for a Chapter 13 bankruptcy may be the solution that can help you keep your vehicle. In this type of situation, you would be consider the “debtor” and the lender would be considered the “creditor.”

How Your Auto Loan Became Upside-Down

Let’s assume the loan is more than 2 ½ years old (at least 910 days before filing date) and the debt is “upside-down,” which means the unpaid balance of the loan is more than the value of the vehicle. Also, we’ll assume the loan is at a high rate of interest, perhaps 18-21%.

An example of this type situation could be that you bought a new $35,000 car three years ago on a six-year loan. The value of the car has since depreciated to only $12,000. However, because of the high interest rate, you still owe a loan principal amount (i.e., balance before monthly interest is added) of $22,000. In this case the “secured” value of the vehicle is only $12K, because that is the current replacement value if the car was repossessed and sold by the creditor.

Thanks to Chapter 13 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code, you can force the bank to let you keep your car and, in effect, refinance the loan for the current replacement value. This process is known as a “cramdown” and it is not available in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

How a Cramdown Helps You Keep Your Vehicle

In a cramdown, the creditor would need to accept only the value of the vehicle as the principal amount for the refinanced loan ($12K in the example described above), plus only about 4.75% interest per month. This would significantly reduce your monthly auto loan payment.

The lending institution would then discharge the additional amount you owed, as well as the interest due based on the original higher rate. The court will determine the actual interest rate you’ll pay, which will be based on the current prime rate when that is determined.

The remaining amount of the loan principal that is not crammed down will be lumped into the pool of your other nonpriority unsecured debts ($10K in the above scenario). You will only pay back pennies on the dollar of the discharged amount, as part of your monthly payment to your bankruptcy trustee, which is distributed to all of your creditors.

At the end of the Chapter 13 plan, which will last 3-5 years, the creditor must provide you with a lien-free title to your car or truck.

Learn More Auto Loan Cramdowns and Bankruptcy

To learn more about how filing for bankruptcy and pursuing a cramdowm can help you avoid having your car or truck repossessed, and the other ways it can you relieve the pressure of your financial situation, submit the form above or contact us to schedule a free consultation.

Tax Returns, the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), and Bankruptcy

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We recently interviewed Christopher Holmes and Jess M. Smith, III, the senior partners at Tom Scott & Associates, P.C. Below is Part 3 of that interview, which focuses on filing your taxes in relation to when you file for bankruptcy, as well as how a subsidize premium for health insurance purchased through the Healthcare.gov website can affect your taxes.
Q: On another topic, what happens when someone who has filed for bankruptcy has not been filing their taxes on time every time?
JS: A hot issue is tax returns in Chapter 13 filed late.
CH: Pre-2005, if you filed bankruptcy first and you had a bunch of unfiled tax returns, you could turn them in after your bankruptcy and basically all of the taxes were going away except for the ones from the last three years. That gave great incentive for people to get right with the IRS after they’ve file for bankruptcy. Now, they’ve reversed the law to make it much more harsh on debtors. If you don’t file your taxes within two years of the bankruptcy the taxes due are never going away.
Here is a horror story example: A salesman in his late 50s, who lived in Noblesville in Hamilton County, came to us in 2009 with a bunch of letters and documents from his accountant. Based on his recollection and the documents, he thought his taxes from 2000 through 2005 had been filed in 2005. So we were getting ready to file his bankruptcy case in 2009, we made sure he paid his taxes for 2006, 2007, and 2008, which were the three years before his bankruptcy filing. We went through the bankruptcy and he paid those taxes, and then he eventually obtained his bankruptcy discharge.
About two months after his discharge, the IRS started coming after him saying that his returns from 2000 through 2005 weren’t filed until 2008. Because they were filed within two years of the bankruptcy, they were had not been discharged. He swore those returns had been filed and said, “I know my accountant mailed these in.” he gave me power of attorney and I got on the phone with the IRS in Sacramento. Unfortunately for the client, the IRS had scanned the envelopes, with the postmarks, of all of those returns, so they had image files that showed that for some reason the returns had not been mailed in until 2008.
So, he had misrepresented to me the status of those returns when we filed his case in 2009, so as soon as he was out of his bankruptcy when we paid his 2006 through 2008 taxes, we now had to file another bankruptcy to deal with these old taxes, because the IRS was starting to levy his pension.
CH: His old taxes would have been discharged because they were more than three years old, except for the fact that those taxes were filed within two years of the day of the filing of the bankruptcy case, so you don’t get the benefit of that so-called three-year rule, which meant the taxes didn’t go away as they would have back in the good old days before 2005.
JS: Looking back, he had to file his case in 2009, because he had another creditor pursuing him in court, so he didn’t have the luxury of waiting two years and a day to file for bankruptcy. That’s important for people to understand now, if you have not filed your taxes and you want to get resolution on them. Usually, the recommendation is to get them done sooner rather than later to have any hope of discharging them in a bankruptcy.
CH: The moral of the story is to file your taxes every year to avoid that sort of problem.
JS: Another issue that is moving to the forefront of bankruptcy cases – and I don’t know yet how we’re going to resolve it because it is such a new issue – is that people have been signing up for personal health insurance under the recently legislated Affordable Care Act – otherwise known as Obamacare – and then it is turning out that their annual income is too high, so when they file their taxes they no longer qualify for the subsidized premiums they received. they are then getting nailed by the IRS with huge liabilities. I have client coming in tomorrow who owes over $3000 on his 2014 taxes.
CH: So he had a subsidy that was bigger that it should have been because it was based on his current income?
JS: Correct.
CH: So they projected his income as less than what it proved to be, so he received a bigger subsidy than he would otherwise.
JS:  I don’t yet know all of the details, but instead of receiving the refund his accountant projected, the IRS said, “No, you owe us a little over $3000.” What I currently know is that it has something to do with Form 8962 Insurance Premium Tax Credit, referred to as the PTC form. Moving forward, that is probably going to be a common issue that triggers tax liabilities the people don’t anticipate.
CH: Because the subsidy is based on an income means tests.
JS: I don’t know for sure yet, but apparently he sought out a subsidize premium when he applied through the Healthcare.gov website in 2013 for healthcare insurance coverage for 2014. When tax time came in 2015 to recapture, he got nailed. We’ll have to wait and see how this situation gets resolved, but it is an issue that will likely come up more frequently in years to come.

Parts 1 and 2 of This Interview

Part 1: Divorce and Bankruptcy
Part 2: An Experienced Bankruptcy Attorney Can Help You Keep Your Personal Property

An Experienced Bankruptcy Attorney Can Help You Keep Your Personal Property

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We recently interviewed Christopher Holmes and Jess M. Smith, III, the senior partners at Tom Scott & Associates, P.C. Below is Part 2 of that interview, which focuses on keeping your property when you file for bankruptcy, as well as the benefits of a bankruptcy attorney who has other types of legal experience.
Q: What is the difference between a Chapter 7 bankruptcy and a Chapter 13 bankruptcy in regards to keeping your property and assets?
CH: Chapter 13 of the bankruptcy code gives us the clout to do things that you can’t do in a Chapter 7. For example, in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy a debtor can only protect a certain amount of assets from his or her creditors and a trustee has the power to “take” certain property, liquidate it, and use those net proceeds from the sale of those assets to pay back a certain amount of debt.
I have a case right now in which a man has too much equity in his home, so in a Chapter 7 a trustee could conceivable take the house, liquidate the house, pay off the mortgage, and with the money that’s left over pay a certain percentage of all of the different debts. So what we are going to do is put him into a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, so as long as he pays back to his creditors, through this three- to five-year plan, as much money as those creditors would have received in the Chapter 7 had his house been taken and sold, he then gets to protect and keep his house. That requires him to be in that plan for three to five years and to pay a certain amount each and every month, to make sure those creditors once again receive as much money as they might have received had his assets been liquidated.
JS: Keep in mind that this case is very fact-sensitive, There is no one-size-fits-all plan. That’s why you need to have an experienced attorney on your side.
CH: Some lawyers don’t even meet with the clients to have a consultation. They have a paralegal or some other non-lawyer handle the situation. We think that we provide a better service to the clients, because it’s a real live lawyer who does the initial consultation. We get certain facts and certain circumstances from them, and then we diagnose the problem and then we can better prescribe the remedy for them, because we get more information from them. Then, we can filter the information that through the lens of our expertise to figure out whether a Chapter 7 or a Chapter 13 is the more-appropriate remedy for that particular person. Given the number of years we’ve been practicing bankruptcy law, we’ve experienced so many different circumstance that we can reflect back on to say, “This case is like that previous case and the circumstances from that case apply here.”
JS: Also worth mentioning is that while our practice is now largely devoted to bankruptcy, it hasn’t always been exclusively devoted to bankruptcy. You find a lot of these bankruptcy firms have attorneys that don’t know anything other than bankruptcy. They don’t have that broad base of experience that Chris and I have in areas family law, personal injuries, estates, probate, where those area all impact how bankruptcy cases are decided.
CH: Back in the day we were general practitioners and handled just about any type of legal issue that came through the door.
JS: Chris has over 30 years of experience and I have 22 years of experience. Chris had done bankruptcy for about 17 years exclusively and I’ve done it for about 12, so I had about a decade of handling other type of legal work. I think we can offer the benefits of those other experiences, whereas some of the other bankruptcy offices in Indianapolis can’t offer that broad base of experience.
CH: Every once in a while something comes up and I harken back to those days when I did divorce law or criminal law or probate, and something comes up where a previous experience helps me devise a remedy in bankruptcy court that fits the situation. Some of these young whippersnappers out of law school who have done nothing but a little bit of bankruptcy, there’s no way they can handle a case like we can handle it having done thousands and thousands of bankruptcies on top of all of our other legal casework. It easy to think we’ve seen it all in the world of bankruptcy, but every one in a while something comes up where we tap into those previous experiences to device a remedy for that new wrinkle.
Q: Hearing you say that, reminds me that you do other things for your clients beside just handling bankruptcy issues.
JS: Correct. We do some wills, some life planning documents, power of attorney, along with divorces and non-contested child custody cases.
CH: Yes, everybody needs a Last Will and Testament, so do offer that service for a reasonable fee, so if someone is interested should contact us. We also do living wills and durable powers of attorney, documentation of healthcare representatives.
JS: We also co-counsel. We’ve recently had a few cases where people come to us with a personal injury claim where we co-counsel with other firms to obtain settlement for our clients. I’m not an expert in medical malpractice, but I know someone who is, so I can help you find the right attorney for you particular circumstances.

Parts 1 and 3 of This Interview

Part 1: Divorce and Bankruptcy
Part 3: Tax Returns, the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), and Bankruptcy