When foreclosure of a house is a threat, many homeowners seek debt relief through bankruptcy. A fairly common theme in this type of situation is the presence of a second mortgage. Another common aspect in this scenario is that homeowners are unaware of the second mortgage on their home. How does this happen?
We recently discussed foreclosure and second mortgages with Christopher Holmes and Jess M. Smith, III, partners at Tom Scott & Associates, P.C. Below is a transcript of that conversation.
Jess Smith: We’ve recently had several clients come to us with a foreclosure problem. We’ve been ready to file their bankruptcy, thinking they only have one mortgage on the property that is under water, and it turns out they actually have a second mortgage, because they’ve been in trouble before and entered loss mitigation. They basically granted a second mortgage that is now held by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) with no minimum payment and no interest. But, the loan is due either in 30 years or upon sale of the house or upon refinancing of the existing note. The majority of people who come to us to get help with their first mortgage have no recollection of this second mortgage.
Q: These are secured loans?
Chris Holmes: Yes, these are secured loans. They were behind right before closure so they took the arrearage and made it into a note and second mortgage with no payment due.
JS: So they don’t get a monthly bill. They didn’t do a loan modification on the original mortgage, they default on it again, and so they’re sitting here in a foreclosure and they bring in the foreclosure documents and we have to tell them they have a second mortgage. If we can prove they are still under water with the first mortgage, we can get rid of that HUD mortgage in Chapter 13.
Q: Can you expand on the different types of second mortgages you can acquire other than from a bank?
JS: What was probably more common 10 to 15 years ago was when people would get what was called an 80-20 mortgage. If they didn’t put enough money down to qualify for a certain loan, so they would get a loan for 80% of the total amount financed and then get a subsequent loan for 20% of the amount financed, in order to get the lower rate on the first mortgage. So they would have two mortgages basically granted at the same time when they purchased the house.
CH: Instead of borrowing 100% from the first lender, the lender would let them borrow 80% as a first mortgage. They would then borrow the other 20% and turn that into a second mortgage. The loans were then recorded within minutes or seconds of each other. We saw that quite a bit 10 to 15 years ago. Now, we hardly see that at all.
Q: Are there any other agencies besides HUD that provided those types of second mortgages?
JS: It’s usually just the Department of Housing and Urban Development. I think the way these mortgages are created is when the homeowner gets in trouble the first time, HUD will cut a check to the original lender to bring the debt as current; they’ll restructure the interest rate and the payment terms, but HUD just doesn’t give the default amount to the lender. They hold that as a second mortgage. Most people either just forget about it or they have so many pieces of paper shoved in their face – when they know this is how much I have to pay on the first mortgage – they have no recollection that there is a second mortgage out there. So they come see us very late in the foreclosure process.
Q: You mentioned that they may not even be making payments on the HUD loan. What are the various types of terms that could be applied to that second loan?
JS: Typically, the terms are no interest, a maximum maturity of 30 years, or the loan becomes due upon sale of the real estate or the refinancing of the first mortgage.
Q: If it is a no interest loan, does the borrower need to be making monthly payments on that amount?
JS: They are not required to, but the odd thing is that they can get rid of it in Chapter 13 bankruptcy. if when they file the bankruptcy they owe more on the first mortgage than what the house is worth.
Q: What exactly does “get rid of” mean in regards to the second mortgage?
JS: Basically, a lien strip.
CH: It’s called a motion to avoid a wholly unsecured mortgage. So as long as we can persuade the judge that the value of the home is exceeded by the payoff on the first mortgage, there’s no equity to which the second mortgage can effectively attach, because they are wholly unsecured, the law says you can get rid of, or as we say, strip, or avoid that – turn them from a secured creditor into an unsecured creditor, so down the road when the house is to be sold, there is no need to pay that second mortgage. It’s wiped out just like a credit card debt is wiped out.
Q: is that for both Chapter 7 and Chapter 13?
JS: That’s only available in Chapter 13.
CH: That’s one of the primary reasons we recommend Chapter 13 for some people in that circumstance. In a Chapter 7, you’re stuck with that second mortgage. Only in Chapter 13 do we have the clout to get rid of it.
JS: I met with a gentleman earlier today whose house on the east side of Indianapolis is up for Sherriff’s sale in a couple of weeks. He can’t find his foreclosure complaint. All he brought in was the notice of the sale. I went to the state court chronological case summary, and the Department of Housing and Urban Development is named as a defendant in the foreclosure. So, before we file the case, I have to see if there is a second mortgage, and if there is, I need to pay real close attention to what his house is worth to see if there is the possibility of eliminating this debt he didn’t even know he had.
Q: In a Chapter 7, they’re going to lose the house?
CH: It’s either make arrangements to pay all mortgages to keep the home or surrender the home to get rid of the debt.
Q: In a Chapter 13, is that second mortgage, which you’re stripping from being secured, rolled over into the pool of creditors so that you’ll still eventually pay pennies on the dollar for that amount?
JS: It’s converted into unsecured debt – lumped together with credit cards and medical bills, etc. – that you might eventually pay anywhere from 1-cent to 100-cents on the dollar. It just depends on what your income ability is to pay back back the debt. But it is converted to an unsecured debt.
Q: Is there a lesson a reader might learn from this case? Why is he filing for bankruptcy?
JS: The gentleman is about 50 years old and currently employed as a machine operator. He earns about $45,00 a year. His wife, who is not filing for bankruptcy, is employed by the government. She earns about $50,000 annually. The primary reason for his financial problem is that he and his wife don’t communicate about income and expenses. The house and the mortgage are both in his name. Her money is her money and his money has to pay for the house. They’ve only had the house for three years, so maybe they just bought too much house. I suspect it is a pattern of lack of communication that has put them in this spot, because he doesn’t seem to know much about her bills and expenses, but she makes over half of the household income.
Q: Did this gentleman come in to see you at you at your East Indy office?
JS: Actually, he came into the North Indy office, because it’s open on Saturday.
If your mortgage lender is threatening foreclosure on your house, contact us to discuss possible options that will allow you to stay in your home while you work to get out of debt.
Additional Resource from HUD: Avoiding Foreclosure
Arrearage
Divorce and Bankruptcy
We recently interviewed Christopher Holmes and Jess M. Smith, III, the senior partners at Tom Scott & Associates, P.C. Below is Part 1 of that interview, which focuses on a few aspects of how a divorce can impact bankruptcy.
Q: We know that divorce is one of the major unfortunate events that cause people to file for bankruptcy. For someone who is considering a divorce or who is already divorced and is considering whether or not to file for bankruptcy, what circumstances might they encounter and how can those be handled to their advantage?
CH: We had a client from Avon, which is in Hendricks County, in his thirties, who was divorced not so long ago. In the divorce decree, his ex-spouse was awarded a property settlement of over $46,000. He had some other financial woes, but this property settlement was the biggest, so he wanted to file bankruptcy.
I told him that under Chapter 7 of the bankruptcy code that the divorce settle was a non-dischargeable debt, so he would be wise to file under Chapter 13 of the bankruptcy code, because we could discharge the vast majority of that settlement.
Q: What was the nature of the debt that would make it different under the those two chapters of the bankruptcy code?
CH: Because it was a property settlement, the bankruptcy code states that it is a non-dischargeable debt under Chapter 7. He was going to keep the properties and she was going to get money in exchange for her equitable interest in those properties. So this settlement was a debt that, according to Chapter 7, you cannot get rid of, but the United States Congress made it a dischargeable debt in Chapter 13.
JS: Congress created the legislation on the theory that if you do the best you can and pay what you have to pay, and the ex-spouse gets in line with the other debtors and receives a portion of what you owe, that’s fine under Chapter 13. But you just can’t file under Chapter 7 and walk away from the property settlement debt completely.
CH: So as long as the settlement debt is not deemed to be in the nature of alimony, maintenance, or child support, he pays back a few pennies on the dollar. Then, upon the discharge of his bankruptcy, the rest of the debt is wiped out, rendered null and void. So, the ex-wife thought after the divorce was finalized that she was was going to be receiving money in exchange for the physical properties he kept as part of the divorce settlement. But that money owed to her went into the Chapter 13 and she had no recourse but to accept those pennies on the dollar.
JS: The other time where property settlement comes into play is when you have one credit card that both divorced spouses used while they were married. One spouse is ordered to pay that credit card debt and says, “I didn’t incur that credit card debt,” but the divorce judge say, “I don’t care. You’re paying it.” That is a debt in Chapter 13 in which they can list the bank or financial institution that issued the credit card and the ex-spouse as creditors, so they pay pennies on the dollar to the original creditor and the ex-spouse – and then the credit card company goes after the ex-spouse for the difference.
CH: In that situation, she can’t go back to the divorce court and ask the judge to hold her ex-husband in contempt for not paying the debt as he was originally ordered to do in the divorce decree. In addition to that debt, to further this gentleman’s problems, he has a child support obligation that he has been unable to pay in full, so he has what is called a child support arrearage. so, in a Chapter 7, he is pretty much at her mercy with a non-dischargeable debt. The benefit of a Chapter 13 would be that he can force the woman to accept the cure of that child support arrearage over the life of the Chapter 13 plan. Meanwhile, she can’t go back to divorce court to ask that judge to hold in in contempt for not paying all of the child support. So, he has a very powerful remedy to keep his ex-spouse at bay on both the back child support and the non-payment of the property settlement.
Q: If alimony was a part of the divorce settlement, would it be covered in this situation as well?
CH: Alimony is non-dischargeable, but if he is behind in paying the alimony, he could use a Chapter 13 to, as we say, cure, or catch-up on that situation. It also forces the ex-spouse to accept that cure or re-payment over a 3 to 5 year period, as opposed to being forced to come up with it in a much shorter period of time.
Q: Does this individual’s employment status affect the case?
CH: He is a self-employed home remodeler with two children, so unfortunately his income is variable, which prevents him from paying his child support in a timely manner, because his income goes up and down. What we are hoping to do in his plan is to buy him more time to resolve that problem.
Q: What is the process you would go through to make his case or a similar case to the divorce court judge?
CH: Luckily, the bankruptcy code has provisions that make it pretty clear-cut that if we propose this plan, unless there is some legitimate objection, whether the ex-spouse likes it or not, she is compelled to comply with the terms of it,or at least accept the terms of the plan.
Q: Were there any legitimate exceptions that you feared might come into play when proposing the plan on his behalf?
CH: My fear was that her divorce court lawyer might try to assert that this property settlement was in fact in the nature of maintenance. I’ve had that happen in the past where even though it clearly stated “property settlement” in the divorce decree, they convinced the state court judge to say, “Oh no, what I really meant was that this is in the nature of maintenance, which makes it a non-dischargeable debt,” and therefore the client couldn’t get rid of it in the Chapter 13 bankruptcy.
JS: I’ll give you an example of an experience our associate Andrew DeYoung had. The bankruptcy code says that an above median debtor can contribute to the retirement accounts during the bankruptcy – basically shielding money from their creditors. Andrew had a case recently in which the debtor, his client who is a divorced woman, proposed to still contribute big chunks of money into her retirement account. Her ex-husband’s attorney said, “This plan is not being proposed in good faith, because she could stop these contributions to put more money into the plan.” The judge agreed the contributions were in contravention of the code and basically said, “I don’t think you should fully fund your retirement account and I’m going to make you offer some more money to the bankruptcy plan.” The judge didn’t state what that amount would be, but it forced them to eventually reach a deal that both sides could live with.
I think had Andrew’s client had the money to go up to the Court of Appeals, he might have won the case for her, but she didn’t have the money to pay for an appeal. That particular judge did not like the – quote, exorbitant, unquote – amount, about $800 per month, being put into her IRA, which her employer would then match on top of that, so she had great incentive to contribute to her protected retirement fund. Her ex-spouse objected and the judge agreed that she could not soak all of that money away from the settlement and just pay three cents on the dollar, so she had to do something else. As I stated, they eventually worked it out and agreed upon an amount she could put into her IRA.
Parts 2 and 3 of This Interview
Part 2: An Experienced Bankruptcy Attorney Can Help You Keep Your Personal Property
Part 3: Tax Returns, the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), and Bankruptcy